"When the Muslim population gets to a critical mass . . .

. . . you have problems"


What's the critical mass?

At what percentage does the Moslem population of a non-Moslem country become a dangerous problem?



Prof Israeli, an expert on Islamic history at Hebrew University in Jerusalem, has been brought to Australia by the Shalom Institute of the University of NSW.

He said Muslim immigrants had a reputation for manipulating the values of western countries, taking advantage of their hospitality and tolerance.

"Greeks or Italians or Jews don't use violence," he told Fairfax.

"When there are large Muslim populations who are prepared to use violence, you are in trouble.

"If there is only one or two per cent they don't dare to do it - they don't have the backing of big communities.

"They know they are drowned in the environment of non-Muslims and are better behaved."

AAP
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/jewish-deputies-against-muslim-quota-idea/2007/02/16/1171405418065.html


LIFE can become untenable when the Muslim population of a non-Muslim country reaches about 10 per cent, as shown by France, a Jewish expert on Islam says.

The Australian Jewish News yesterday quoted Raphael Israeli as saying Australia should cap Muslim immigration or risk being swamped by Indonesians.

Professor Israeli told the Herald that was a misunderstanding. But he said: "When the Muslim population gets to a critical mass you have problems. That is a general rule, so if it applies everywhere it applies in Australia."

Professor Israeli, an expert on Islamic history from Hebrew University in Jerusalem, has been brought to Australia by the Shalom Institute of the University of NSW. The Australia-Israel Jewish Affairs Council is co-hosting many of his activities.

He said Muslim immigrants had a reputation for manipulating the values of Western countries, taking advantage of their hospitality and tolerance.

"Greeks or Italians or Jews don't use violence. There is no Italian or Jewish Hilaly [a reference to the controversial cleric Sheik Taj el-Din al Hilaly of Lakemba mosque]. Why?"

Professor Israeli said that when the Muslim population increased, so did the risk of violence.

"Where there are large Muslim populations who are prepared to use violence you are in trouble. If there is only 1 or 2 per cent they don't dare to do it - they don't have the backing of big communities. They know they are drowned in the environment of non-Muslims and are better behaved."

In Australia, Muslims account for about 1.5 per cent of the population.

Professor Israeli said that in France, which has the highest proportion of Muslims in Europe at about 10 per cent, it was already too late. There were regions even the police were scared to enter, and militant Muslims were changing the country's political, economic and cultural fabric, and demanding anti-Semitic and anti-Israel policies.

"French people say they are strangers in their own country. This is a point of no return.

"If you are on a collision course, what can you do? You can't put them all in prison, and anyway they are not all violent. You can't send them all back. You are really in trouble. It's irreversible."

Professor Israeli said that in Australia a few imams had preached violence. "You should not let fundamentalist imams come here. Screen them 1000 times before they are admitted, and after they are admitted screen what they say in the mosque."

He said some Muslims wanted to impose sharia (Islamic law) in their adopted countries, and when propaganda did not work they turned to intimidation.

Professor Israeli said his task was to describe, not prescribe. He also said his warning did not include immigrants, including Muslims, who simply wanted to improve their lot. As long as they respected the law and democracy, their numbers — Buddhist, Muslim or Jew — were immaterial. It became material when a group accepted violence.

"The trains in London and Madrid were not blown up by Christians or Buddhists but by Muslims, so it is them we have to beware," he said.

Keysar Trad, of the Islamic Friendship Association of Australia, said "Not only religious clerics need to be screened before entering Ausralia but also academics … this type of academic does nothing but create hatred, suspicion and division … We should review not only what the man has said but also those who have sponsored him, to see if they endorse those comments."

http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/limit-muslim-migration-australia-warned/2007/02/15/1171405374552.html

Copyright © 2007. The Sydney Morning Herald.

But . . .

AUSSIE JEWISH COMMUNITY AGAINST "BIGOTRY"

In the usual bending-over-backwards show of "tolerance" . . .

The Jewish Board of Deputies has distanced itself from comments by an Israeli academic who says Australia should limit its number of Muslim immigrants.

Professor Raphael Israeli is quoted in the Australian Jewish News as saying that without such a migration cap Australia risks being swamped by Indonesians.

But Prof Israeli told the Herald his comments had been misunderstood.

"When the Muslim population gets to a critical mass you have problems," he said.

"That is the general rule - so if it applies everywhere, it applies in Australia."

But NSW Jewish Board of Deputies CEO Vic Alhadeff today distanced his organisation from the comments.

"The Jewish community dissociates itself from the comments by Israeli academic Raphael Israeli that Australia should limit the number of Muslim immigrants," he said in a statement.

Mr Alhadeff said the Jewish community did not believe racial or ethnic quotas were helpful.

"We do not believe in racial or ethnic quotas or stereotyping," he said.

"These comments do not reflect the position of the Jewish community and are unhelpful in the extreme.

"The Jewish community has a strong and proud record in fighting racism, and condemns all expressions of bigotry."

[Comment by lw: Once a country becomes Moslem, what % of the Jewish population can tolerate living under Sharia? Moslem countries are almost completely "Judenrein"--free of Jews. The land given to the Arabs that call themselves "Palestinians" are 100% free of Jews. Jews either do not understand Islam--koran, ahadith, etc. or they are suicidal. I believe the former holds true. It is way past time to educate the Jewish communities about Mohammed's plan for the Jews. The Moslem jihadists follow that plan--as in the case of "Mein Kampf"--what Moslems intend to do to Jews is spelled out in the koran. Jews better believe it. They pooh-poohed Hitler's intentions. Let them not make the same mistake again. The price they pay is too high.]

Prof Israeli, an expert on Islamic history at Hebrew University in Jerusalem, has been brought to Australia by the Shalom Institute of the University of NSW.

He said Muslim immigrants had a reputation for manipulating the values of western countries, taking advantage of their hospitality and tolerance.

"Greeks or Italians or Jews don't use violence," he told Fairfax.

"When there are large Muslim populations who are prepared to use violence, you are in trouble.

"If there is only one or two per cent they don't dare to do it - they don't have the backing of big communities.

"They know they are drowned in the environment of non-Muslims and are better behaved."

AAP
http://www.smh.com.au/news/national/jewish-deputies-against-muslim-quota-idea/2007/02/16/1171405418065.html

Copyright © 2007. The Sydney Morning Herald.


ISLAM CANNOT BE DEFEATED WITH WORDS

In an interview with the AJN, Professor Israeli said radical Islam would not be defeated by a war of words.

“You have to infiltrate all those circles where the Muslim radicals operate, to arrest them, and to limit immigration into western countries where these Muslims, who are bent on destroying western civilisation ... to limit immigration, even students who apply to come from Islamic countries to the West,” he said.

“It serves no purpose when you have this home-grown terrorist, who has been preparing for years to blow up undergrounds in London, and all you do is lead a war of words. The war of words doesn’t help. There is a whole gamut of actions that are possible in order to check this threat of Islam.”

Citing France, where Muslims comprise about nine per cent of the population, as an example, Professor Israeli warned growing Muslim communities could change the political, economic, and cultural fabric of a country.

“You have to adopt some kind of preventative policy. In order not to get there, limit the immigration and therefore you keep them a marginal minority, which will be a nuisance, but cannot pose a threat to the demographic and security aspects of a country.”

But Islamic Council of Victoria director Waleed Aly branded the comments “ill-advised and foolish” and said Professor Israeli didn’t understand Australia.

“It is clearly possible in the current environment to say things about Muslims that you simply cannot say about anyone else,” Aly said.

“The fundamental problem at the heart of this is that he seems to be suggesting that increased marginalisation of Muslim populations will somehow produce something other than mutual resentment. It should be obvious to anyone really that it’s doomed to failure.”

Officially, there are fewer than 300,000 Muslims in Australia according to the 2001 Census, but Islamic community officials estimate the actual number to be at least 500,000 – about 2.5 per cent of the population.

“Even though it’s so low, they are so vocal, and they make so much noise,” Professor Israeli said. “And therefore the situation has to be checked before they increase their numbers, because don’t forget in your immediate proximity dwells the largest or most populous Islamic country in the world [Indonesia], and by necessity, there is demographic pressure from there to channel the surplus of populations to wherever it’s possible.

“And one of the big possibilities is Australia, so they will continue to come legally, or illegally, and settle here, and when they get to the rate of the 10 per cent like in France, then you will see life will become untenable.”
He said France might already be at the “point of no return”.

“Then they control whole sections of the economy, there are areas in France where you cannot be elected to Parliament without the support of the Muslims and so on. And therefore, by increasing their numbers they start to have an impact on the social, economic, political and cultural nature of the country.”

He warned that radical Muslims would find it easier to “melt” into the community and plan terrorist acts without scrutiny from authorities if the growth of Australia’s Muslim population was allowed to continue.

“You will have then large concentrations of Muslims, so it’s not thousands, it will be millions, and when they become millions it’s a big mass where individual Muslims, including terrorists, can melt, and then go look for them.

“In England they already have that problem, they cannot locate them, they cannot sort them out from the general population, and sometimes you have to impose a curfew on a whole area to catch one or two or three terrorists, and by doing that you do an injustice to an entire population, and then they start complaining that they are discriminated against.”

Immigrant Muslims had a reputation for manipulating the values of their adopted countries to suit their own ends, he said.

“And that’s why Islam has become feared in western countries, which are open, democratic, and tolerant of others. And Muslim populations, which are very often minorities, very often abuse that hospitality and use democracy, openness and tolerance to their benefit, to spread their faith and to intimidate their hosts, and very often, to impose their standards and values upon them.”

WITH MELISSA SINGER

http://www.ajn.com.au/news/news_print.asp?pgID=2564

[Another view on at what % Moslems become an ever-present danger can be found at

http://islamicdangerstill.blogspot.com/2007/12/even-more-drastic-times-call-for-even.html