Fitzgerald: Muslims and Hindus

Gandhi was unacceptably wrong about a number of things -- his advice to Jews to mimic Indians in their campaign with the British, and to offer "passive resistance" to Hitler, and if necessary to sacrifice themselves, takes the cake. But he was also remarkably ill-informed about the Muslim threat, the deep and permanent threat, to the "wounded civilization" of India (in Naipaul's phrase -- a civilization "wounded" by the centuries of Muslim rule, its cruelty, its mass murdering). And he certainly gave Muslims the benefit of every doubt.

After Partition, Muslims attacked Hindus, and Hindus fought back. There was an exchange of populations, but many tens of millions of Muslims remained in India, while a few million Hindus remained in West Pakistan (now Pakistan) and East Pakistan (now Bangladesh). But because of the constant discrimination against, and persecution of, Hindus (as well as of all other non-Muslims), the percentage of the population of West Pakistan that is now Hindu has dropped from 15% to 1.4%, and from 35% to less than 8%.

The much smaller population of Buddhists in Bangladesh has also been persecuted, and of course Christians in both Pakistan and Bangladesh have a terrible time. Meanwhile, in India, the Muslim percentage of the population climbs steadily up, and no Muslims appear to be fleeing India to go to Pakistan or Bangladesh. So there continues to be population movement, but not population exchange. Hindus (and other non-Muslims) continue to be subject to Muslim terrorism and to Muslim demands, each demand more outrageous than the next, with no sign that Muslims are willing to own up to what is in the Qur'an, the Hadith, and the Sira. Nor is there any sign that they are going to own up to the incompatibility of Islam, and what Islam inculcates, with the beliefs, or the legal and political institutions, of Hindus, or Christians, or Jews, or Buddhists, or anyone at all who is non-Muslim and refuses to yield to the Sharia and to dominance by Muslims.

Eventually, and inevitably, Hindus and others upon whom war has been made, will react. And they will not stop until they have done to Muslims what Muslims have been doing to them, and have pushed many of them into Pakistan and Bangladesh, in a mirror image of the Hindus formerly pushed out of those places during the past half-century since Partition. It is doubtful that in the rest of the world there would be much, or any, sympathy for the Muslims dealt with in this matter. Infidels need not inure themselves, need not endure forever what has become or is becoming an intolerable situation because of the ideology of Islam.

Yet on the other hand, if they are put in this position, Muslims may win worldwide sympathy, for Muslim propagandists and their non-Muslim supporters, have successfully prevented the outside world, and even many of those who may be Hindis or of Hindu origin, from fully understanding what Muslim rule did to India, beginning with the 60-70 million murdered Hindus.

It is unfortunate that thoroughly modern young Indians or Indian-Americans or Indian-English are uninterested in this matter, or have allowed themselves not to become interested. They wish to signal to the outside world how thoroughly devoid of what they see as silly, nearly troglodytic attitudes of Hindutva, that they (those thoroughly modern Hindus) cannot be accused of such. And to prove it, they will always denounce Hindu nationalists, no matter how reasonable those nationalists might be (they are not all Hitler-praising like a certain politician named Thackeray -- no relation to Becky Sharpe's creator). Some of those young Indians apparently find it unseemly to be too interested in the pre-Islamic history of India (they might start with A. L. Basham's "The Wonder that was India"). And in the United States, those of Hindu descent may, far from India, and even farther from understanding the past and present and future menace of Islam as an ideology, have Muslim friends -- and, as so many do, they may end up confusing personal charm or even kindness or even romantic entanglements with a Muslim for the sweet reasonableness of Islam itself. And this in turn can lead to a tacit whitewashing of Muslim history.

Were I an Indian-American, I would like to find out about what Muslim rule meant for India. Why did Ibn Battuta report, with such bland indifference, on the mass-murders and enslavement of whole villages of Hindus in his "Rihla"? Why was it left to Sir William Jones, and a group of Englishmen, to rediscover or help to rediscover India's Hindu past? What is the real origin of India's Muslims and of Pakistanis -- was it that Islam was simply so wonderful and attractive, or where there other reasons for conversion to Islam? How many Hindu victims were there of Islam in India? What happened to all the temples? (Hint: see the list compiled by Sita Ram Goel). What did the India's own historians write about the Muslim invaders and rulers, as for example in the 2-volume anthology edited, in the 19th century (and recently re-published) by Dowson and Elliott? Why have such historians as K. S. Lal and Sarkar not received their due in the outside world -- or even on Indian campuses? How were Sikhs treated by Muslims, including the most important early figures? What happens to Hindus (and Sikhs) in Pakistan today? In Bangladesh? In Kashmir? How much Muslim violence and terrorism takes place in India, and is never reported outside of India? What happens to Hindus in Amsterdam? In London, Manchester, Birmingham, and Bradford, at the hands of their Muslim neighbors -- anything? Nothing?

Why do Indian-Americans tend to uncritically accept Muslim propaganda, and denounce -- without having read K. S. Lal, or Sita Ram Goel, or Koenraad Elst, or Sir Jahundath Sarkar, or a hundred others who have written -- any expression of interest in, or sympathy for, Hinduism and the Hindu past as something fit for only the most reactionary supporter of Hindutva?

Why is it only the most extraordinary and self-assured observers of Indian descent, such as V. S. Naipaul, who are capable of taking Islam's measure, without any fear of being labelled "Hindutva" fanatics?

These are questions to be asked, if not in Hindu temples and Sikh gundwaras, then privately, to oneself, just before ordering on-line a few books, to start with, by K. S. Lal.

And don't stop there.

http://www.jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/022949.php
[Be sure to read Comments at the above link]

Required: a different attitude by the Indian government, and by all the Infidel governments

Hugh Fitzgerald
Jihad Watch

India, as the object of Islamic conquest, endured, over the centuries of Muslim rule and misrule, tens of millions of Hindu victims. India is a country that, at its Independence, was forced to give up large chunks of its territory on both sides to form West Pakistan (now Pakistan) and East Pakistan (now Bangladesh), in order to accommodate Muslim demands. In Pakistan, at Partition, 15% of the population was Hindu; it is now 1.5%. In Bangladesh, at Partition, 34% of the population was non-Muslim (Hindu and Buddhist); it is now 7%. Meanwhile, in India, the Muslim percentage of the population steadily rises.

In the Pakistan-held parts of Jammu and Kashmir, 400,000 Hindu Pandits have, by Muslim pressure, been driven out. In Indian-held Kashmir, terrorist attacks by Muslims, supported by Pakistani groups unchecked by, and at times supported by, the Pakistani army, have attempted to murder and terrorize the Hindus and drive them out. In India proper (a dangerous phrase, I admit, and I regret it, for it inadvertently concedes that Indian-held Kashmir somehow is different from "India proper" -- the same problem one has in referring to what is called the "West Bank" -- but cannot at the moment think of anything better than "India extra Kashmirem" on the old-map model of "India extra Gangem") there have been attacks, never or seldom reported in the West, for decades, of Muslims on Hindus. But every counter-attack by Hindus pushed to the limits of their endurance is given front-page coverage. We all know about the Hindu attacks on the mosque deliberately erected on the Hindu temple at Ayodha. We all know about the Hindu attacks on Muslims in Gujarat -- why, the State Department banned Narendra Modi, who ran the Gujarat government, from entering the United States.

But the provocations that prompted those attacks, the burning to death of Hindu pilgrims, is quickly glossed over in a sentence And all the other Muslim attacks, steadily, all over India -- those repeated bombs in Mumbai, killing bankers and tea-wallahs alike, set off by the Muslims who run the Bombay underworld (the head gangster sought, and found safe haven, in Pakistan), and even the attack by Muslims on the Parliament building in New Delhi --somehow none of them ever quite make any impression on the non-Indian world. That world remains so deeply uninterested in what is endured by Indians, and unsympathetic (but why?) to Hindus -- not quite to the same remarkable extent as the world has shown itself willing to accept the unendurable position that the Lesser Jihad has forced Israel into, but close.

And now here is Taslima Nasreen, born into Islam in Bangladesh, but whose intellect and moral sense and ability to question and think for herself led, inexorably, to an analysis of Islam, and a subsequent jettisoning of Islam, not unlike that of Ibn Warraq, Wafa Sultan, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, and Ali Sina. The Community of Apostates turns out to be, for those who study their works, the community of the very best people, self-selected, of all those born into Islam. She dares to return to Bangladesh. She is harried. She is hunted. The death threats never stop. So she moves to India, powerful large India, with a population that is 87% non-Muslim. And even there what happens? She is confined to quarters. She meets no one. No one meets her. She is, in effect, a prisoner. She has been condemned to prison, instead of being given the protection of the state that will allow her to move around, to meet, to address gatherings, to publish her views in every sense.

She should be made much of. Instead, a fearful Indian government has condemned her to solitary confinement. How long can she endure such a life in India? How long will it be before she has to flee to the United States, the way Ayaan Hirsi Ali did, driven out by death threats from the country where she had been a member of that country's Parliament?

There is something wrong here. There is something that could be fixed. It requires a different attitude by the Indian government, and by all the Infidel governments. They can run, but they can't hide.

Posted by Hugh at January 5, 2008 12:06 PM

http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/019459.php

In India, the object of Islamic conquest that endured, over the centuries of Muslim rule and misrule, tens of millions of Hindu victims, a country that, at its Independence, was forced to give up large chunks of its territory on both sides to form West Pakistan (now Pakistan) and East Pakistan (now Bangladesh), in order to accommodate Muslim demands. In Pakistan, at Partition, 15% of the population was Hindu; it is now 1.5%. In Bangladesh, at Partition, 34% of the population was non-Muslim (Hindu and Buddhist); it is now 7%. Meanwhile, in India, the Muslim percentage of the population steadily rises. In the Pakistan-held parts of Jammu and Kashmir, 400,000 Hindu Pandits have, by Muslim pressure, been driven out. In Indian-held Kashmir, terrorist attacks by Muslims, supported by Pakistani groups unchecked by, and at times supported by, the Pakistani army, have attempted, to murder and terrorize the Hindus and drive them out. In India proper (a dangerous phrase, I admit, and I regret it - for it inadvertently concedes that Indian-held Kashmir somehow is different from "India proper" -- the same problem one has in referring to what is called the "West Bank" -- but cannot at the moment think of anything better than "India extra Kashmirem" on the old-map model of "India extra Gangem") there are attacks, never or seldom reported in the West, for decades, of Muslims on Hindus -- but every counter-attack, by Hindus pushed to the limits, are given front-page coverage. We all know about the Hindu attacks on the mosque deliberately erected on the Hindu temple at Ayodha; we all know about the Hindu attacks on Muslims in Gujarat (why, the State Department banned Narendra Modi, who ran the Gujarat government, from entering the United States), but about what prompted those attacks, the burning to death of Hindu pilgrims, is quickly glossed over in a sentence, and all the other Muslim attacks, steadily, all over India -- those repeatedbombs in Mumbai, killing bankers and tea-wallahs alike, set off by the Muslims who run the Bombay underworld (the head gangster sought, and found safe haven, in Pakistan), and even the attack by Muslims on the Parliament building in New Delhi --somehow never quite makes any impression on the non-Indian world, so deeply uninterested in what is endured by Indians, and unsympathetic (but why?) to Hindus, not quite to the same remarkable extent as the world has shown itself willing to accept the unendurable position that the Lesser Jihad has forced Israel into, but close.

And now here is Taslima Nasreen, born into Islam in Bangladesh, but whose intellect and moral sense and ability to question and think for herself led, inexorably, to an analysis of Islam, and a subsequent jettisoning of Islam, not unlike that of Ibn Warraq, Wafa Sultan, Ayaan Hirsi Ali, Ali Sina. The Community of Apostates turns out to be, for those who study their works, the community of the very best people, self-selected, of all those born into Islam. She dares to return to Bangladesh. She is harried. She is hunted. The death threats never stop. So she moves to India, powerful large India, with a population that is 87% non-Muslim. And even there what happens? She is confined to quarters. She meets no one. No one meets her. She is, in effect, a prisoner. She has been condemned to prison, instead of being given the protection of the state that will allow her to move around, to meet, to address gatherings, to publish her views in every sense. She should be made much of. Instead, she has been condemned by a fearful Indian government to solitary confinement. How long can she endure such a life in India, how long before she has to flee to the United States, the way Ayaan Hirsi Ali did, driven out by death threats from the country where she had been a member of that country's Parliament?

There is something wrong here. There is something that could be fixed. It requires a different attitude by the Indian government, and by all the Infidel governments. They can run, but they can't hide.

Posted by: Hugh at January 5, 2008 6:37 AM



"There is something wrong here. There is something that could be fixed."

I'm sorry, Hugh, but you're wrong about that, and I will tell you why.

There are approximately 1.3 billion Muslims in the world at this time. The "active agents," that seek to impose their will on the rest of us, are a few percent of that number: somewhere between 50 million and 150 million persons. Not all of these are violence-inclined, but enough are to outnumber the forces of order in any non-Islamic country in the world.

As long as Muslims are admitted freely to secular nations and are treated as free and equal citizens / residents thereof, there is no way that a Taslima Nasreen can walk freely and without fear. One of them will get to her, no matter where she goes. No government anywhere can afford the expenditures of manpower and money it would take to defend her adequately; worse, adequate defensive measures would imprison her as effectively as an iron cage.

The Qur'an commands Muslims to impose themselves on the whole world, by any means expedient. Muhammad's recorded history and sayings reinforce that command. If the last few years have taught us anything, it's that there are enough adequately motivated Muslims in any of the countries of Europe to reduce those countries to chaos or shari'a, as long as Islamic militancy is regarded as a law-enforcement issue...which means, as long as Islam is welcomed in the nations of the West.

This cannot be a law-enforcement issue. It must become a war issue.

Muslims as individuals might well be overwhelmingly inclined toward peace and amicable relations with non-Muslims, but Islam the ideology is inherently at war with any nation that refuses it. Barring extraordinary good fortune such as America had with the Fort Dix Six, militant Islam's "active agents" cannot be seined from their concealment until they've struck. To safeguard ourselves from them proactively, we would have to erect a totalitarianism that would make Oceania in 1984 look like a kindergarten class picnic.

We must accept that we're on a war footing, and do what a warring people must do to survive: expel our enemies from among us and confine them where they can do us no further harm. Europe's policy has been the reverse. India's policy has been inanition. America's policy...defies quantification. This cannot continue if we wish to survive as free men.

Quarantine or genocide. There are no other options.


Posted by: Francis W. Porretto at January 5, 2008 7:18 AM


Hugh,

Great post. Thanks for sharing my sentiments!!

My two cents on the reasons for this behavior in India:

India has been pampering muslims since 1920. Thanks to a very widely known figure in the West as "Gandhi" or Mahatma Gandhi. The apostle of peace bent over his back and ensured that Muslims are pampered, so that they could contribute in India's Freedom Struggle against the British.

Gandhi's historical treachery to Hindu india, should be remembered by every non-Muslim
as "Those who forget history are condemned to repeat it". The west would be wise
from the follies committed by India's fore-fathers and see the state of India today.

The pampered lot lead by Muhammed Ali Jinnah pressurized on British to create a separate land for Muslims and that is "Pakistan" today.

The same Pakistan had also gotten Bangladesh as a part of their "Country". Can you imagine, two completely disjoint territories ruled as one, just because of Islam?

Well anyways, the party that Mahatma Gandhi established was known as Indian National Congress.
The same party is today at the centre ruling India ( as a part of UPA - United Progressive Alliance).

In India, since independence Muslims are pampered as they vote "en masse" as a Voting Block. Every party that needs to come to power use them as Voting blocks. Hence UPA government bends over backwards to accommodate the whims / fancies of Muslim fundamentalists.

Anybody sympathetic to Hindus are branded as "Fascists".

In its current reign, UPA is implementing "Muslims First" policy to pamper to Muslims more and more. As a part of this policy, national resources
for development are alloted to Muslims on a priority basis.

Thanks to the liberlization and the advent of 24x7 news channels in India, we atleast come to know that Nasreen is under house arrest. In the good old days of state controlled media, the whole affair would have been hushed up and Nasreen sent back to Bangladesh without anybody getting a whiff.

India is in real danger of being run over by Muslims due to "Liberal Democracy".

I am not sure how many readers on this site are aware of the true state in India.

India is the only country in the world to enact "Shariah" for Muslims as a "Personal"
governance . Muslims and Non-Muslims (Hindus, Christians and others) have different
personal laws.

That's precisely the reason why BJP (known in the west as the Hindu Fascist Party) was bent on implmenting - Uniform Civil Code. Muslim divorces
and Hindu divorces are treated separately.

1> Muslims can still use "Talaq, Talaq, Talaq" three times (over voice, email, sms ---
welcome technological advances!) and divorce their poor wives.

2> Muslim Wives divorced in India do not get alimony or support

3> Mulsims can marry four wives as per Islamic principles and legally practice polygamy,
but if a Hindu does it (legally), then he can be prosecuted under law.

4> They have special reservations in Government jobs, educational institutions and they
have their own university (Aligarh Muslim University).

I can go on and on...

That's the reason why Ms. Nasreen is being imprisoned in "Secular India".


Posted by: HinduInfidel at January 5, 2008 8:11 AM

January 5, 2008 8:11 AM

Islam in Your Country

I Bharat (India) a Moslem country? Or do you agree with Moslems that it should be that?

At what % of the population do Moslems start to make serious trouble? The answer is included in How long until Islam infiltrates YOUR country?

India has had a sizable Moslem population ever since the various Moslem incursions and invasions, with much territory Moslemized by the Moguls.

At what percentage of Moslem population must the authorities become more vigilant? And what can be done to keep India from becoming another Pakistan?

Take a look at

BARE NAKED ISLAM
http://barenakedislam.wordpress.com/

and

All About Islam

Oil India Ltd. advised not to invest the funds raised in Iran and Sudan

via IMRA - Independent Media Review and Analysis
Website: www.imra.org.il
from http://www.gulfinthemedia.com/index.php?id=429635&news_type=Economy&lang=en

Oil India asked not to use IPO cash in Iran

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Reuters - 18 September, 2008

Foreign banks advising Oil India Ltd on its initial public offering have sought an assurance the explorer will not invest the funds raised in Iran and Sudan, which face U.S. sanctions, oil ministry officials said on Wednesday.

The company aims to open its IPO on November 10 to raise more than 15 billion rupees ($ 325 million) to fund its expansion, the sources said.

They said Oil India plans to invest 23.4 billion rupees in the next financial year, mostly on exploration and development.

HSBC , Citigroup , Morgan Stanley , and JM Financial Ltd are the bankers to the initial public offering.

"The bankers, HSBC, Citi, and Morgan Stanley, with bases in the U.S. have asked Oil India not to invest IPO proceeds in Iran and Sudan," said an oil ministry official with knowledge of the IPO plans, who did not wish to be identified.

State-run Oil India holds a 10 percent interest in a pipeline in Sudan, 20 percent in the offshore Farsi exploration block in Iran, and has stakes in explorations blocks in several countries including Libya, Nigeria and Yemen.

Another ministry official said Oil India was expected to give such an assurance on the IPO funds to attract institutional investors from Western countries.

A third official confirmed the development, saying the bankers sought assurances that Oil India would not use the funds for existing or future participation and investments in countries where sanctions have been put in place by the U.S. Office of Foreign Assets Control (OFAC).

"Bankers know the pulse of overseas institutional investors. They have prepared the list of interested parties and are expected to begin discussion with them from October 13," the third source said.

The move by the banks is a sign that the U.S.-led campaign to isolate Tehran over its nuclear programme is making it more difficult to invest in the Islamic Republic.

Oil India and other Indian firms plan to invest $ 3 billion to develop gas fields in Iran's Farsi block and are waiting for Tehran's formal approval.

India's state-run Oil and Natural Gas Corp and refiner Indian Oil Corp each hold 40 percent participating interest in the Farsi block that Oil India has an interest in.

The first official said Oil India would still be able to invest in Iran if needed, as it was a debt-free company and could raise loans or fund through internal resources.

Iran is drawing interest from Indian and Chinese firms that are keen to tap the world's second-largest reserves of oil and gas and are less susceptible than many other companies to Western pressure over Tehran's nuclear programme.

($ 1=46.3 rupees)

(Editing by John Mair)

India bombings: Muslims angry (at the police, not the jihad terrorists)

from Jihad Watch

“Terrorists do not belong to any religion. They should be hanged. Why don’t the police realise this and stop persecuting Muslims alone?” Because, of course, the terrorists in question are Muslims who explain and justify their actions by reference to Islamic teachings. But that is the one thing above all that, on pain of charges of "bigotry," we are supposed not to notice, and to do nothing about.

"Muslim anger rises, police sketch suspects; India needs tough anti-terror laws: panel," from
Arab Times, September 16 (thanks to Twostellas):

NEW DELHI, Sept 16, (RTRS): India needs a tough law to fight attacks like the deadly weekend bombings in New Delhi, a government panel said on Tuesday, as police released sketches of key suspects. There were immediate signs of dissent within the government, though, after the Home Minister Shivraj Patil told NDTV news channel the country already had strong enough laws in place. In its report, the panel asked the government to consider tougher laws to deal with growing militancy in India. “We need a comprehensive anti-terror law, but there should be adequate safeguards,” said Veerappa Moily, a senior member of the ruling Congress party, who headed the panel. India’s main opposition, the Hindu-nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party, which accuses the centrist Congress party-led coalition of following a policy of appeasement, wants the reinstatement of a tough anti-terrorism law it promoted when in power.

Congress scrapped the law saying it had been misused to harass Muslims. But Muslims say they are still being persecuted under the present regime and were planning to protest, because they were being unfairly targeted in a police manhunt. Minority Muslims told Reuters in several Muslim-dominated areas of New Delhi that police were conducting a “witch hunt” and accused authorities of reinforcing stereotypes about Muslims. “Terrorists do not belong to any religion,” said Feroze Alam, a young trader in New Delhi’s Daryaganj district. “They should be hanged. Why don’t the police realise this and stop persecuting Muslims alone?” Some 20 Muslim organisations plan to meet in New Delhi next month to work a strategy to counter those stereotypes. “It is time to unite and protest against these attempts to harass Muslim youths and brand them as terrorists,” Maulana Syed Ahmed Bukhari, the chief cleric of Jama Masjid, India’s largest mosque, told Reuters.

Posted by Robert at September 17, 2008 12:34 PM
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/022742.php#comments
http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/022742.php

Israeli Troops to Train Indians in Counterterrorism

By vivek raghuvanshi Published: 9 Sep 13:02 EDT (17:02 GMT)

from Defense News

NEW DELHI -India and Israel are drafting a roadmap for Israeli commando forces to conduct specialized counterterrorism exercises for Indian troops.

Israel's Army chief, Maj. Gen. Avi Mizrahi, and Indian Army chief Gen. Deepak Kapoor will finalize the details of the exercises during Mizrahi's Sept. 9-11 visit here.

A senior Indian Army official said that under the proposed agreement, a select group of Israeli commandos will train Indian troops at different unnamed locations in India, including jungles, mountains and highly populated urban zones. Without divulging specifics, the Army official said the Indian forces will undergo intense close-quarter operations training with the aim of learning how to kill insurgents or terrorists without harming the local population.

The plan calls for the Indian troops to have multiple training sessions on a regular basis, the Army official said.

Indian Army has also taken a keen interest in the homeland security operations, armaments and surveillance devices used by Israeli troops.

India is the largest importer of weaponry from Israel. Last week, India awarded a $260 million contract to Rafael of Israel for 36 Spyder Air Defense systems for the Indian Air Force

http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i=3714649&c=MID&s=TOP

Cartoon Madness in Tamil Nadu

Police detained agitators angered by Prophet Mohammed's cartoon

ANI
Tue, Sep 2 11:05 PM

Vellore, Sept 2 (ANI): Police in Tamil Nadu detained 200 agitators of the Muslim community protesting against a local daily that published a cartoon of Prophet Muhammad. Dinamalar a leading daily in the state published the cartoon on September2

The cartoon angered Muslim community, who first stoned the office of the newspaper and later destroyed 4 state run buses. Police has reportedly filed a case against the newspaper and is investigating the issue further.

Yahoo Web Services India Pvt Ltd.
http://in.news.yahoo.com/139/20080902/808/tnl-police-detained-agitators-angered-by.html

via http://www.jihadwatch.org/archives/022512.php

This is the cause of the agitation: